Griggs: You are the recognized fitness expert on the Main Line, even the whole Philadelphia area in general. What is your background?

Roger Schwab: Briefly, I was the first strength and conditioning coach at Pennsylvania State University in the early 1960's. Previously, without much medically sound information to go on, I struck out on my own. Though enthusiastic, I made many mistakes in my misuse of a barbell, which produced severe injury, including major degenerative change to my spine at the early age of 21! Through experience, I learned and made up my mind to try to help others prevent making the mistakes I did. Thus, Main Line Nautilus (now Main Line Health and Fitness) was created. I've spent 25 years trying hard to right the ways of an industry (fitness) where common sense is not always common.

JG: What "common sense" is lacking in the fitness field?

RS: Most interested trainees are sincere about exercise and seeing results from their workouts. However, exercise in itself produces nothing of value. The only thing exercise can immediately produce is injury. However, exercise properly performed can stimulate a meaningful physiological response. It is the rest between exercise sessions that allows the response. Some trainees are willing to work out long hours every day if necessary to get results. The common-sense approach, of course, is to train hard to stimulate a physiological response and allow the body to rest to allow that response. Proper sensible training should be the means to the end, not the end itself. The end result should be quality of life outside of the gym.

JG: Why do I hear that doctors' offices, specifically orthopedic surgeons' offices, are busier than ever with exercise-related injuries?

RS: Good question! The answer is that in most people's minds, more is always better. That may be true in other facets of this society; however, it is not the rule as far as exercise is concerned. Often, people who are training daily are "overtrained" and far more vulnerable to colds, sickness and chronic degenerative change and structural stress. Exercise performed properly makes large demands on the body's reserve levels. When these reserve levels are constantly tapped and left continually exhausted, the trainee is very vulnerable to a breakdown.

JG: What type of "breakdown?"

RS: Often, chronic musculo-skeletal injury! Remember, joint stress accumulates silently. You may run on a regular basis for years for the purpose of increasing cardiovascular ability. If suddenly you find yourself suffering from knee, lower back, hip or neck pain, the first assumption is, "What did I do different in my previous day's run?" The problem, however, usually relates to the previous years of running, which may have eventually manifested in structural damage. Care must be taken to learn and understand just how much exercise is needed to stimulate the desired results. Did the orthopedic cost and psychological mindset "outweigh" the physiological benefits? If long-term participation is the goal, careful consideration must be given to how much exercise is necessary or desirable. Anything above and beyond is often wasted and at worse contra-indicative. Kenneth Cooper, M.D., the "father" of aerobic exercise, years ago stated that if you could run 5 miles a day, try for 10 etc., etc. In 2002, Cooper says anyone running more than 15 miles per week is running for other than physiological reasons.

JG: What do you mean by your term "proper training?"

RS: The "core" of everyone's training should be exercise that strengthens the muscles/bones and the heart/lungs, a combination of safe, medically sound strength training and aerobic work. And this, of course, is where total confusion prevails.

JG: How so?

RS: It varies with the specific psychological and fundamental beliefs of women as compared to men. As hard as it is to believe, women in 2002 are still stuck on the reactionary myth that meaningful strength training somehow results in large, masculine muscles. This in spite of the fact that numerous studies explicitly show that properly conducted strength training will significantly strengthen muscles and more importantly bone mass with little if any muscle size increase. Building muscle is extremely difficult for men who seek that development, let alone for women who do not possess the genetic potential to even qualify. So, women have struggled for years trying various trends of aerobic exercises to get leaner and harder. While stimulating cardio-respiratory benefits, though often with an orthopedic cost, aerobics were never the answer to a leaner, stronger, harder body. Men, on the other hand, have always been more interested in demonstrating strength rather than sensibly building strength. One repetition maximum lifts and fast ballistic movements often result in force exceeding structure, in which instances injury must occur. Whether they are acute injuries or chronic injuries, far too many people are getting hurt exercising. Properly performed exercise should strengthen the muscles/bones and heart/lungs, and never damage the skeleton.

JG: So you are saying people should exercise less? That's not what I expected from a fitness expert...

RS: Someone once said, "Rather than seeing how much exercise you can do, look for the least amount of exercise necessary to stimulate the desired result. He or she was probably on the right track.

JG: Specifically, how often should someone exercise?

RS: It is my opinion that the person should judge how often to train by his or her strength. If you are consistently getting stronger, you can be confident you are on the right track. If your strength workouts are stagnant or you are getting weaker, you can be some what certain that you are either not training hard enough to stimulate strength gains or you are training too often. Empirically, after 25 years of trying to understand what works for most people, we have found two strength workouts per week best for most people. That is two WHOLE-BODY WORKOUTS. Some people will tolerate three weekly workouts and some people can progress on one weekly workout if the intensity level is high enough. Split routines are usually a step in the wrong direction. The sincere but mistaken belief here is that if you split your routine by exercising, say, "back and biceps" one day, "chest and shoulders" the next day, that you are working several areas of your body while other muscle groups are recovering. The truth is that although muscles do recover from stress rather quickly, the overall system including the nervous system, the immune system, the organs etc. does not. The system as a whole needs time to recover and respond to the stimulus. How long? As I explained, you can judge that by your strength. If you are keeping a journal, which is a necessity, compare your current workout to your previous ones. If you are getting stronger using the same perfect form on your exercises, you are understanding the benefits of proper training. If you are on a treadmill to nowhere, question your intensity or amount of exercise.

JG: Where does aerobic exercise A into your equation?

RS: Judge your amount of aerobic work by your strength workouts. If you are getting stronger, your overall conditioning is not depleting your system. In practice, do your cardio work on a regular basis and strength-train twice a week. Your whole body strength workout should take approximately 30 minutes. If you are training hard, that will be about all you can tolerate anaerobically. The American Heart Association recommends, I believe, 3 or more 20-30-minute aerobic sessions per week. That is a general guideline. It is important to remember that excessive aerobic exercise may potentially compromise connective tissue and bone integrity. You can be confident that your strength and aerobic work is paying off in cardiovascular benefits if there is a noticeable lowering of your resting heart rate. If getting leaner is one of your goals, watch your caloric intake. If your body weight is constant or gradually lowering and the resistance utilized in your strength workout is increasing, then your overall aerobic and strength training is helping you to bum fat, maintain, and if intensity level is high, increase muscle and bone mass. People participating in an exclusively aerobic exercise program are missing the essential component. On the other hand, people who have learned to strength-train hard and intelligently, who have recognized the stimulus of exercise performed to muscular failure, can actually improve both strength and cardiovascular ability by moving from exercise to exercise with virtually no rest between exercises. This type of training stimulates results in the overall system that must be experienced to be understood. It is possibly the most efficient way to exercise.

JG: Sounds great. However, most women and some men I've talked to get bored with strength training. How can they stay motivated?

RS: Serious men and women who want results and are willing to work never get bored! Keep a journal! If you made 9 repetitions the previous workout on your bench press, make 10 this time. Be your best every workout. Respect your efforts. Fun fitness is an oxymoron. Serious training is the means. Fun and improved function in life is the end. Nike says, "Just do it." I say, "Don't just do it. Do it right:'

JG: What's best, free weights or resistance machines?

RS: A barbell is a remarkable tool. Compared with anything before it, the barbell was almost a miracle, capable of stimulating results far superior than any tool used previously. That being said, it must be understood that the strength of a muscle changes, sometimes dramatically, throughout a range of motion. A well-built resistance machine will provide balanced variable resistance throughout the range of motion. A barbell provides random variation. Strength training utilizing proper form on a Med X or Nautilus machine will build strength throughout a muscle from stretch through full contraction whereas a barbell will build basically mid-range strength since there is no resistance in the stretch or in the fully contracted position of most conventional barbell exercises. Simplistically, a chain is only as strong as its weakest link!

JG. Most men and women I know use free weights, as well as most bodybuilders. Why?

RS: I was head judge of the International Federation of Bodybuilders from 1977 to 1982 and judged five Mr. and Ms.Olympia contests. I was in the inner sanctum of professional body-building. This was a learning experience I will never forget. Suffice it to say, bodybuilders are superior physical specimens. You must fully understand the extreme importance of genetics to appreciate, this. These are men and women who had the genetic potential to excel. Of course they, in most cases, worked hard to reach their potential. However, they had that potential. 99.9% of us do not have that potential. Most people in this world could train perfectly and never show the aesthetic results that a genetically, physically gifted person shows even if that champion did no training! A natural mistake any enthusiast can make is to ask a bodybuilder how he or she got that way. He or she will have an opinion, of course. But ultimately, it comes down to the proper choice of parents. Never compare yourself to someone else. Train hard and be the best you can be. For your own training, it is not so much the tool you use; rather it is your intensity of effort. That being said, it is my opinion that a properly built resistance machine will do everything that a barbell will and more, safer and more efficiently.

JG: We are rapidly running out of space here, Roger ... (of course, I say this with a smile). Can you briefly tell us what our workouts should consist of.

RS: Goals in your strength workouts should be to be progressive and use perfect form. In practice this means increase resistance whenever your repetition goal is reached. If 10 reps is your goal, and you achieve it, always increase resistance moderately the next workout. Never sacrifice your form. It is very easy to move resistance too quickly. If in doubt about your speed of movement, slow down. In practice, take approximately 4 seconds to lift the resistance, a 1-2 second hold in the contracted position and 4 seconds lowering the resistance. I strongly recommend one set of approximately 10 repetitions to muscular failure, which is the inability to perform another repetition in perfect form. If you are using 2-3 sets per exercise and are still increasing strength, continue. I have found, however, that quantity of work always compromises quality of work. People seemingly will always choose more work over harder work. In efficient strength training, that is never the answer.

JG. Will that hard work cause injuries?

RS: It will prevent injuries! Remember, the most dangerous repetition is the first repetition in a set. That is when you are able to generate the most force. Each succeeding repetition, you are able to generate even less force, so that by the 10th repetition, you are barely able to complete the repetition. Every repetition performed slowly, smoothly with no jerking of the resistance acts as a warmup for the final repetitions, which seem more difficult since the preceding reps have created an inroad into your starting strength. Thus, the deeper you get into the set, the safer it is. This should explain why demonstrating (1-3-repetition sets) strength rather than building strength is usually a mistake.

JG: Can I do cardio and strength the same day?

RS: If you are getting stronger, yes!

JG: How do yoga and stretching fit in?

RS: Both certainly complement strength and cardio work. Yoga postures are both demanding and stimulating. Unfortunately, yoga has opened up a myriad of orthopedic injuries. This should not be looked at as an indictment of yoga. Properly performed, going at your own pace and not competing with anyone else in the class, yoga participants can derive a certain value. Flexibility, or range of motion around a joint, can make a major difference in quality of life. Remember, however, that extreme flexibility can result in joint instability, which can create many problems down the road. Yoga enthusiasts who abandon serious medically sound high-intensity strength training and embrace yoga as a be-all and end-all have lost touch with the fundamentals of full-range, progressive exercise. They have failed to understand the elementary, fundamental function of muscles - muscles that move the body and support the skeleton.

JG: Finally, how do we all get thin?

RS: Many people will train for any length of time in order to bum calories from overeating. Eating is one of the great rewards in this society. Most all of us overeat at times. The key is to get back on track and to stay there. Weight training burns calories and raises the basal metabolic rate, allowing us to bum more calories at rest. Moderate aerobic exercise strengthens the heart and also bums calories. However, the most efficient way to lose weight is to eat less food. Someone once said that no food tastes better than living your life lean. Remember, the biggest problem in regards to body fat is not what we eat but how much we eat.

JG. Our readers and I thank you. We at Philly Health and Fitness Magazine have been big fans of yours for almost 7 years now!

RS: Thank you, Jami.